翻譯部分只是懶懶把核心部分翻譯出來。
Shamim Sarif and Hanan Kattan, they are two forces to be reckoned with. A writer/director and producer/entrepreneur, they live and work in London. The two are partners in life and work and have collaborated on two films adapted from Sahmim’s novels, I Can’t Think Straight and The Unseen World.
如果可以像她們那樣，我和小乖一個是導演，我是制片人，那就太棒了。但是我什么都不是。我是不是太搓了。我討厭這種認為工作只是謀生手段的想法，我想做點什么。但是我一直只是處于這樣的想法而已，什么都沒做。我能給小乖和我自己的太少了。我不想每天都是混日子。
Sarif and Kattan were invited to the 26th Torino GLBT Film Festival to show their two films in the non-competitive section, Open Eyes: Lesbian Romance, curated by Margherita Giacobino. This section is a welcome addition to a film festival that has struggled to make lesbian films more visible. Shamim and Hanan, two savvy and determined women, took time on their short visit to Torino to share some of their ideas about working in film with PopMatters.
去參加Torino LBGT電影節，接受PopMatters采訪。
I would like to begin by asking you about the differences between writer and director. Is there a distinction between these two people who are both you?
Shamim Sarif: I would say there is a very clear distinction. The upside of being the director of one’s own writing is that you have the vision of the characters and the world that you created from day one, since inception. But when it comes to actually being on the set, I try to keep the writer off. That’s the point where you have to put your vision into a very different media, it’s the film at work. You have to be less precious about what you can cut, when actors have a different conception about a line you might like to try. For me, it’s not set in stone. I like to get the benefits of that collaboration that film can bring.
Q:作家和導演的區別是什么?
A:李處在于很清楚這個角色的事業，和你所創造的世界。但是，你要把這種看法放到電影業，演員可能有不同看法。這對我不是一成不變的，我喜歡得到和電影業合作的一些利處。
Do you feel that these roles enrich each other?
SS: Probably more so at the beginning, during the scriptwriting and the pre-production process. Often there’s a depth of stuff to draw on when I’m working with the different departments. Whether it’s sound or set design or costumes, there’s a history to the character that we can draw on that might not necessarily be there in the layers of the screenplay so I think all of that is wonderful. When we were dressing Lisa Ray in The World Unseen, we had these beautiful dresses and we went for a very subtle theme of lighter colors, whites and washed out, especially at the beginning. And as the story progresses, you see slightly more blues and greens, getting stronger and stronger. Her progression as a character is reflected very subtly in her wardrobe. Those kinds of things were great to discuss and I think came out more strongly because of the novel and my writer’s background, if you like.
Q:你認為這些角色豐富了對方嗎？
SS：可能在剛開始，在劇本寫作和預生產過程中。經常有更深一層需要繪制當我和不同部門合作時。這可能是聲音或者set design或者服裝，當為lisa ray 在the world unseen趙莊，有很漂亮的服裝，我們經歷了一個淺色化的緩慢過程，變白和洗了多次。隨著故事展開，可以看到更多藍色和綠色，變得越來越強烈。她作為一個角色的進步反映在她的浴袍中。這些事情發展很強烈因為我是小說的作者。
Does one come more naturally to you?
SS: I love all of it. And I feel very privileged to do it all. I think from a purely personality perspective, the writer part comes more naturally, because I was very introverted and perhaps not excellent at communicating. But that’s improved along the years because I find a large percentage of directing is managing people. And to be able to manage people well, you have to be able to communicate your vision and get good work out of them. You want people to feel good about what they are doing, so it’s partly just learning to say no or to say yes in a way that makes them feel included.
Q:有哪個角色更加自然？
SS：從純粹個人觀點，當一個作家更加自然,因為我比較內向可能不擅長交流。但經過那么多年工作，我發現導演的很大一部分工作是管理人。為了管理人，你必須能夠交流你的想法，讓他們做好更好的工作。你想讓別人對他們正在做的事情感覺良好，這是部分學會說好或不好，讓他們感覺融洽其中。
Has your novel writing process changed at this point? Or have you always written with something very visual in mind?
SS: I think I have. I never write a novel and think about the screenplay at the same time. I write it for the sake of the novel. But I think instinctively they’re quite visual. The scenes translate to the screen fairly easily, but that’s just part of my novelistic style, I think.
Q:你的寫作過程是否因此改變？或者你是否寫作同時頭腦里有很可視化的景象？
SS：我從來沒有寫一個小說同時想著電影劇本。我為了小說而寫作。但是直覺上我認為他們相當可視化。場景很容易轉化到銀屏，我想這是我小說樣式的一部分。
How did Enlightenment Productions come about?SS: I had optioned my first script to Hollywood. And I didn’t have a very “enlightening” experience. They had raised a lot of money for the film, around $15 million. They said it was a very gentle story of unrequited love. They said, “We’ve raised the money and we need two sex scenes and a nude scene.” But, I said, it’s a story of unrequited love. And they were like, “Well, that’s the way it goes.” It was a real turning point for me and a difficult one to say no to, but in the end, Hanan asked me, “So why are you doing this?” It’s for the integrity of the story, ideally. We understand that film is collaborative but that’s just really selling out. So at that point I suggested to Hanan that she might like to start producing for me because I knew that she could do it. She didn’t know anything about the film business but… **Hanan, you had a business of your own, right? Hanan Kattan: I had my own company. I had just sold my brands, and I was wondering what I wanted to do next.So you were ready to make a change. HK: Not such a change. I was thinking of going more into what I knew, not take a detour. But I also really wanted Shamim to have the creative freedom to take her vision all the way without having too many producers and people telling her what she should and shouldn’t do, what sells and what makes sense in this formulaic Hollywood way.So what is your definition of a “producer”? Do you feel like you made up this role yourself or did you model yourself on someone? HK: I basically learned on the job. I organize, whether it’s fund-raising, whether it’s organizing all the production on set, pre-production, post-production, taking it to market, distribution. So it’s from beginning to end. I do all the business side of things while Shamim’s theme is more the creative side.You have a creative hand in the work as well. **HK: Very much so. I mean, some producers just occasionally come on set. But I’m there every day. I make sure everything is going well. I give Shamim feedback on the shots, on the performances. I’m there for post-production, the editing. I’m involved from beginning to end.SS: She has a very strong creative input. That works for me. I think that a lot of producers do have that, but don’t necessarily have the sensibility. With Hanan and I, if we have disagreements, we have disagreements. It’s not possible for everyone to be in accord 100%. At that point if it’s a creative decision, I might push the point. But it really helps to have an outside person who knows what you are trying to achieve because sometimes you are too deeply in it.
Q：Enlightnment公司怎么產生的？
SS&HK：我和好萊塢人談，need two sex scenes and a nude scene。我覺得改變了電影原先的計劃。我知道hanna有能力當制片人。她雖然對電影產業完全一竅不通。Hanna有自己的公司。hanna真的想Shamim有創造的自由去拍她想拍的，沒有太多制片人告訴她應該做什么不應該做什么，讓她生產一些好萊塢公式化的產品。HK回答基本在工作中學習如何組織，湊集資金，預生產等。HK主要負責商業方面，Shamim主題是創意方面。HK和SS友誼以，但是外人觀點可以幫助你。
I’d like to ask about I Can’t Think Straight and The World Unseen. They are two different genres, a romantic comedy and a period piece, both featuring the same two actresses. How did that happen?
SS: Lisa [Ray] had always been attached to The World Unseen. And we happened to shoot I Can’t Think Straight first, where she played the role of Tala. But we really knew we were going to work together on The World Unseen from quite early on. I was happy with that decision. I did cast around because even though I thought Sheetal [Sheth] would be great for the role of Amina, I thought, well, maybe I should be looking elsewhere and so we looked around. But I think what Sheetal brought to the role is a sense of youth and vulnerability. And you get a sense that, yes, here’s this girl who’s built her own life, but there’s this core of vulnerability that I thought was very lovely. The chemistry between them is great on screen, so we thought we would go for it.**I think you were really spot on regarding this one. **SS: Plus, neither of them plays a role like the other one in I Can’t Think Straight so I knew that their acting ability was excellent.
**I have a question about the male characters in both films. In I Can’t Think Straight, the two fathers were very calm in contrast to the hysterical mothers. Similarly, there is this lovely character Jacob in The World Unseen, along with Amina’s supportive father. So, why all these gentle men? **
SS: Well, I think a couple of things. One is that in I Can’t Think Straight, which is loosely based on our story, that was our experience. I mean, not quite as wonderful, but the men were more practical and a little more accepting.
HK: They were much gentler in their reaction than our mothers.
SS: Our mothers are very much keepers of the tradition and worried about what people will say. So we wanted to reflect that experience. Secondly, I’ve always felt a lack of role models for men, if you like, as far as men who can assert their masculinity and their strength without being abusive or angry. I also wanted to explore that, especially in terms of Eastern men, because they often have that portrayal in films or in books, as being very hardcore or macho. I thought it would be nice to give another role. As my kids are growing up, I’d like them to see another character like Jacob or like Amina’s father. I can say that’s a good guy to be like.
The world unseen部分根據我們的經歷改編。想塑造慈祥的父親形象。
**I also notice that music plays an important role in your films. I read about the difficulties you encountered finding the music you wanted for the lovemaking scene in I Can’t Think Straight. I’d also like to hear the story behind Leonie Casanova, the singer/songwriter you’ve been working with. **
SS and HK (together): Amazing.
SS: In terms of the lovemaking scene in I Can’t Think Straight, I had in mind a couple of songs in Arabic. We tried to get the rights and they sent back emails saying, “Okay, is this a scene with two women and their husbands?” And we said, “No. Just two women.” And their answer was no. I was too risky for them. So Hassan said, “You’ve always wanted to write a song. Why don’t you write a song?” And I thought, “Well, it’s not really ideal to do it in post production and…”
HK: Let me just backtrack here a moment. Shamim plays the piano brilliantly. And she always writes and directs with music in mind. Even her editing is very musically driven. When she is in rehearsals with her actors, she always gives them the music she has in mind for characters in the film. Everyone is in sync musically and creatively. This is why I made this suggestion.
SS: Music is really a kind of shorthand for me. It helps me when I’m writing as well. So yes, I wrote some lyrics and Hanan had them translated and then we went and recorded them.
HK: For I Can’t Think Straight, we had mainly female singer/songwriters, all very strong. But we couldn’t get someone who wanted to record or release the soundtrack so then I convinced Shamim that we should do it ourselves under our own Enlightenment Records. We went to the studio and recorded the songs with Leonie Casanova, who made music for both our films and also acted in The World Unseen. She has become a very good friend. We created the label and now she has signed up to Enlightenment Records as well.
找不到想要的音樂，我們就自己作曲。
找不到唱片公司錄，我么就自己找人錄。
**Is it true that you heard her perform live one night at some small venue? **
HK: Yes, it was her first time. A friend of ours who knew her boyfriend at the time insisted we go. We were tired and she was going on late, but we decided to go. We were just stunned by her, by her incredible lyrics, performance, sound, and music. We immediately approached her that night.
SS: Actually, I was thinking, “Well, that would be nice when we’re ready,” but Hanan just pounced on her. She went up to her and said, “Hi, we’re making a movie and we’d like you to do a song for it.” She said, “Okay. Sure.”
HK: We began exchanging emails. She reacted very well to the script and the novels. She came up with the song “Broken” at the time and then “Little Feeling” for I Can’t Think Straight.
**She was a great discovery. Is her career taking off now? **HK: It is. She was an investment banker originally and then decided to focus on her music. She’s a very bright woman.
電影的singer在一個live認識，原來是一個投資銀行家后來決定專心做音樂。
At the center of both these films is the idea of taking risks in order to be true to oneself.
SS: I think it’s an essential theme in my work because at a certain point, it became more risky not to be true to yourself. That’s in terms of, for example, my relationship with Hanan. I think there is an element of risk in breaking the mold. It is very important to do that because that’s the way progress and excitement and great art and all of these things happen. In these movies, especially in I Can’t Think Straight, that takes the form of an awakening sexuality. I think less so in The World Unseen, which is more of a meeting of minds, though definitely on Amina’s side, there is a very strong romantic attraction. But it’s more symbolic about opening perceptions and breaking some molds that we all just accept.
成為自我，打破常規是電影的一個主題。
**I think it is also ingrained in our society to put all the bad stuff aside. We don’t want to age or have much to do with pain. To face my biggest demons and be honest with myself, I may have to face who I really am. This could cause some deep pain and so, it is not necessarily embraced by society. **
SS: A good many religions and ways of looking at the world say that life is suffering, so let’s just go through it and do the best you can and sacrifice. I don’t think that’s true. I think life can be a very peaceful thing and we are particularly lucky that we don’t have to struggle with finding our food every day or being in a bad political situation. But whatever situation you are in, there are opportunities for the human spirit to grow, and I like to have that possibility in the films and the work that we do.
Q:我覺得把壞的事物放在一邊在我們這個社會是根深蒂固的。我們不想和這個傷痛有太多的關系。為了面對最大的惡魔和對自我誠實，我們必須面對我們真正是誰。這可能會導致一些深深的傷痛，擁抱社會不是必須的。
SS：無論你在什么情況，都有機會讓人類精神成長。我想要在電影業看到這種可能性。
How was it for you to adapt a literary work such as The World Unseen, which was published in 2001? **
SS: I think it was fine. I had experience writing screenplays, which made a big difference, rather than just going at it as a novelist. The key for me was to figure out what was the core theme, what am I trying to say in this work and how do I get there? **Because the novel was written quite visually it was easy to keep some scenes pretty much intact as they were in terms of their look and feel. But other things had to go because there are a lot of different subplots and characters in The World Unseen and I didn’t want it to be a three-hour epic. I wanted it to be something that reflected the core theme of integrity and being true to yourself. For me it was a happy process. I enjoyed it. It wasn’t painful to lose certain things
Q:改變文學作品怎么樣？
A:我有改編劇本，變化很大的經歷。重點是指出核心主題，我想要在作品中說什么，如何達到這個目標。我想要它主要反映正直和對自我誠實的主題。
What did you lose?
SS: There were a couple of family members: Omar has a sister who was mentally ill and has a previous history. There was a little more of a backstory about Jacob, and a couple of other backstories, but the main theme between Amina and Miriam remained intact.
I read that you will be adapting yet another novel, Despite Falling Snow.
SS: We have a finished script. It is a different feel from the novel. There was a lot of adaptation. Again, I think it’s very cinematic. The novel moves between post-Stalinist Russia and present-day America and the story unfolds a little bit with each one. Hopefully, by the end of each section, you are on a hook and you want to go onto the next one. That was a tough screenplay to write. It took me a while. But it’s there and in the meantime, we are just finishing editing on a documentary based around TEDxHolyLand, which I’ll have Hanan tell you about. It’s a conference that Hanan started in Jerusalem.
新劇本Despite Falling Snow是講間諜的故事。
**Have you wrapped on that project? **HK: We’re doing some work online and we’ll be finishing next week. So I hope we’ll be taking it to some festivals.
**Did you do all the filming in Israel? **
HK: In Palestine and in Israel.
**Can you describe the project for us? **
HK: TEDxHolyLand is part of the TED events that we have already worked on. Shamim has spoken at several. We met my Israeli partner, Liat [Aaronson] at TEDIndia and decided to do TEDxHolyLand, bringing Palestinian and Israeli women together in East Jerusalem, where normally they don’t get the chance to come together or to have a voice internationally, or even locally. SHamin had never worked on a documentary before but we thought it might be great to share it with people internationally versus it being a very localized event in a TED format. As a result, we did that, then we went back again and did more interviews with some very interesting women.
TEDxHolyLand項目吧巴基斯坦和以色列婦女呆到一起。一般情況下他們沒有發言權。Shamin從來沒有做過紀錄片，但是如果讓全世界人知道這是一個很有意義工程。
**Is documentary a direction you think you might want to go? **
SS: No, not really. I guess I can’t say no. I did enjoy the process. I think there are many things to explore, but I’m in love with the fictional side of things. Yet I really enjoyed this process more than I had expected. I wasn’t sure what would come out of it, not working with a set narrative concerned me at the beginning. Having said that, there’s an amazing flexibility to see what you can get out of people. I think it was very inspiring. Here are women who are not waiting for peace. They are not waiting for politicians 60 years later. They are making their own changes and again it’s a message of hope and of human potential that is an important story to get out there from a difficult region.
欣賞拍紀錄片過程。有很多東西去探索發現。不知道結果會怎么樣，一開始困擾。這是些不是坐等和平的婦女。她們自己做改變，是關于和平和人類可能性從一個困難種族出來的故事。
**How it is for you two as a couple working together? How has motherhood changed your way of working? **
SS: Of course, your children are always then at the forefront of your life, but I think the wonderful thing about us working together as a couple is that we can work together as a family. So if we need to go and shoot a movie in South Africa, we can all go. We are both working on it and in some cases the children are working on it because they’ve acted in both of our movies a little bit. It’s a great experience for them, I think, as well. We try not to bring too much upheaval, but I think it’s fun for them to have moms who are into a lot of different creative things. And they are very much a part of our working life and obviously part of our daily lives.
作為伴侶一起工作也就是作為家庭一起工作。一起要去南非取景全家出動，孩子也可以扮演一些角色。
Shamim Sarif
作家兼導演的謝米姆·薩爾弗是近年來少見的博學多才的女人之一。她不僅是個非常成功的作家，同時也是個出色的劇本作家和電影導演。她擅長創作短篇小說，而且能成功地改編小說將其搬上大銀幕。她同時也執導MV和為音樂填詞。她和她的同性愛人兼制片人漢娜·卡坦一起經營著她們的Enlightenment公司。
還是挺羨慕這樣的人，和愛的人一起工作。做自己喜歡做的事情。雖然總是被灌輸工作只是謀生的一種手段，總是在做一些很重復的工作，如果愛好變成了自己的職業后，你也許就不會喜歡那工作了的想法。但是，如果可以把愛好變成工作，還可以和愛人一起為事業打拼，那樣的人生一定比只是把工作當做謀生手段的人生幸福很多。
但是羨慕是沒有用的，我應該怎么做。好像我能和電影中的Leyla一樣有才華，但是真相是我不僅沒有那樣的外貌，也沒有那樣的才華。雖然那只是電影，我也不能感嘆我的人生多么失敗。大概也是我不夠努力不夠堅定的問題。
Lisa Ray
Born on 4 April 1972,但是現在完全不顯老。
At this event, Ray revealed that she had incurable cancer, and she shared the diagnosis of Multiple Myeloma 多發性骨髓瘤 with the media and the public. At the same time, Ray started an acclaimed blog, The Yellow Diaries, chronicling her cancer experience.
"I believe it can be cured," Ray wrote on her blog. "That's the Dirty Realist in me... I'm getting better. My prognosis, given my 'junior' status and stage of disease, is very good. I'm aiming for full remission."
Ray went on to help raise funds for the establishment of the first research chair for Multiple Myeloma at Princess Margaret Hospital in Toronto. Also, she took part in Plan Canada’s Because I am a Girl campaign, a global movement that fights for the rights of girls around the world who face discrimination because of their gender and age.
On Christmas in 2009, Ray received a stem cell transplant to treat her rare cancer.
沒想到lisa得過cancer，治愈以后才結婚。她堅強活下來記錄了她病的里程，同時積極參加各種活動爭取婦女權利。她有一個個人網站lisaraniray.com，在twitter和facebook上也會經常更新。看上去親民多了。
更加喜歡電影中那個形象了。
Sheetal Sheth
父母都是印度人，出生在美國，去了NYU。
導演找的角色最出名的電影作品好像就是這兩部了。但是她們兩個在這電影中演得真的挺不錯，不做作，而且很養眼。歡樂的結局。
